Please provide me with an e-mail address. Mine is:
Send me a message and I will reply with the letter. Thx alot!
Utopian Reformist
JoinedPosts by Utopian Reformist
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41
THE ELDERS JUST CALLED US, NEED HELP
by ARoarer inthe elders just called us.
one called and another one got on the phone first to ask if my husband would meet with them.
my husband told them he had nothing to say, and if they are going to make any announcement from the platform that slanders our name in any way we will sue them personally, and if we do meet with them we would only do it if our lawyers come and to tell jr brown and mario marino to come also.
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41
THE ELDERS JUST CALLED US, NEED HELP
by ARoarer inthe elders just called us.
one called and another one got on the phone first to ask if my husband would meet with them.
my husband told them he had nothing to say, and if they are going to make any announcement from the platform that slanders our name in any way we will sue them personally, and if we do meet with them we would only do it if our lawyers come and to tell jr brown and mario marino to come also.
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Utopian Reformist
Hi again AROARER:
That's more good news (no pun intended)! Bill and Alan and a host of others here are very helpful and will sincerely try their best. I have to admit, many times I have noticed people receiving better and safer advice here than I have witnessed in person with elders, servants and overseers.
It is ironic to find truth remotely through the internet after having studied the truth in person. Anyway, it sounds like the after-shocks are beginning already, since your XMAS holiday.
If the opportunity still exists to send your letter, take advantage of it. I am concerned that if any additional communications between yourselves and the elders get muddled in details like "the love issue" and "where's the concern" and "gossip" then they will use your demeanor against you and make their own announcement.
If you can, be calm in your next communication and offer the letters accordingly. Do not allow yourselves to be provoked or incensed at their ususal cliche damage control tactics. Randy Watters at: http://www.freeminds.org has alot of helpful information you could use in this situation. Stay calm, prepare your letters, make contact and then deliver your letters before they can make their announcement!
Strike first and make yourselves heard and keep your dignity! It is you who reject them, not the other way around!
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54
Will you go to the memorial
by freeborg ini have never missed a memorial in 20 years of being a jw, but this year will be the first one i miss because i refuse to set foot in any kingdom hall.
i was wondering how many that post here will attend the memorial and if so why?.
do you feel pressured into going by family or friends?.
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Utopian Reformist
I will go to "feel" things out and to irritate the over righteous ones.
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12
Why Not Reject 1st Century Org. as God's ?
by Explorer into all those offended by the wt's behavior :.
one of the biggest cause of confusion among loyal ones to the wt org.
today, and those dissenting, is the very concept of what to expect from jehovah's organization on earth.
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Utopian Reformist
EXPLORER:
Unfortunately, a couple of years ago when I started researching the WTBS & JW faith online, I did exactly what you did here today. I thought the obvious answer was so simple that anyone could figure it out by just lookng at revelation.
Then I tried in a loving and kind way (as you have) to "rescue" or "counsel" others who appeared to be attacking the WTBS & JW's for simply making errors and succumbing to human imperfections.
Then, I stopped and began reading for a change. After I had spent considerable time reading different books, different sites, I then started to see another picture, a new picture. You need to make your own discoveries. It's to easy to "pop-in" and watch the discussions and then inject some basic teaching we may think is revolutionary, simple and radical enough to capture attention and win someone over, but it's not.
I thought to myself "why don't they see", "they just want to sin", "it's all lies", "they just want power" and a million others. It's amazing to find out honest people still exist (maybe not many) and there is peace and friendship in the world, if you make the effort. All humans thrive in peace, love and freedom. You'll see.
In the end, there isn't anything new under the sun. Outside of the WTBS & JW's, you will find that hundred and thousands of people, researchers, doctors, lawyers, scientists, psychologists, laymen, psychiatrists, former overseers, former elders, former pioneers have already spent and dedicated untold effort in researching and exposing the real "truth" about the truth.
If you are sincere, as when you learned their version of the truth, keep your mind open and learn. Feel free to challenge and cross-reference what you learn, it only helps. Soon, you too will realize why the WTBS & JW's (like all religions) are a "racket and a snare".
No wonder Rutherford used those words, it takes one to know one, and as a lawyer, he knew, he knew for sure!
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21
Part 5: The Beginning of the End
by Amazing inpart 5: the beginning of the end .
note: from this point forward begins not only my final journey out of the jws, but even more bizarre and twisted turns in the road.
i hope you all find this interesting, because to me it only gets more intriguing and weird for the 3 12 years following january 1992... moment of decision: i can point back to the mountain top visit with god, or maybe today i might call it a visit with my higher power, whomever she/he/it might be.
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Utopian Reformist
I love this "digital mini-series" your posting. It gives alot of stength and courage. Thx for spending all that time compiling your notes and writing this down for us.
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41
THE ELDERS JUST CALLED US, NEED HELP
by ARoarer inthe elders just called us.
one called and another one got on the phone first to ask if my husband would meet with them.
my husband told them he had nothing to say, and if they are going to make any announcement from the platform that slanders our name in any way we will sue them personally, and if we do meet with them we would only do it if our lawyers come and to tell jr brown and mario marino to come also.
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Utopian Reformist
AROARER:
Here is a link to a letter used by someone else in this forum. Remember to have your attorney examine it, since laws differ from state to state. Here is the link:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?d=20637&site=3&page=2
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Here is the letter "MOMMY" posted:
quote:
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I have decided that I will not formally disassociate myself from the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or from Jehovah’s Witnesses in general. I came to this decision for several reasons. First, there is nothing I see in the Bible that calls for a formal letter of disassociation in my situation, or any other. It seems to me that the provision of formal disassociation is a matter of convenience for the legal department of the Watchtower Society rather than serv-ing any real religious purpose. It allows people to be pigeon-holed into nice neat little categories rather than dealing with the real issues involved. Also, I have no problem with the P________ Congregation or its members. My disagreement is with certain actions, policies, teachings and writings contained in publica-tions that are produced and in oral teachings promulgated either individually or collectively by the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses and it’s legal corpora-tions, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. and the International Bible Stu-dents Association.
The purpose of this letter is to clarify certain matters and to secure and pro-tect what I consider basic human rights in dealing with agents of the multina-tional, multi-billion dollar Watchtower corporations.Since you have asked me to appear before a judicial committee to face charges of apostacy, there are a few things that I must ask for and which I feel must be clarified before I will even consider meeting with a judicial committee.
1. I shall be notified in writing of the time, place and purpose of any meetings with a judicial committee.
2. I shall be notified in writing of the exact purpose of the meetings.
3. I shall be notified in writing exactly on whose behalf the judicial committee was convened and is acting: the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Penn-sylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.
4. If any other agency other than the one for whom the judicial committee has in-formed me they are acting for is consulted, reported to, or allowed to have any bearing on the outcome of the judicial process, I will consider the judicial com-mittee as acting in the their behalf.
5. I shall be notified in writing as to my status as a member of any and all of the organizations for which the committee is acting or to which the committee will report.
6. I insist that the judicial committee immediately cease, and in the future de-sist from any actions toward or against me in behalf of any corporation or or-ganization of which I am not a member.
7. I shall be notified in writing of any accusations against me, the names of persons making such accusations and the substance of any evidence against me.
8. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibili-ties involved in the judicial process.
9. I shall be given sufficient time between notification of any meetings with a judicial committee and the time of the actual meeting to prepare a response to any accusations.
10. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during all meet-ings between me and the judicial committee as an observer. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the judicial committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.
11. During the meetings with the judicial committee I and/or my observer will be allowed to take whatever notes we feel are necessary.
Additionally, if the judicial committee takes any judicial action against me :
12. I will not recognize any action taken by the judicial committee as valid un-less it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.
13. In this written communication the judicial committee must state exactly on whose behalf they have taken the action, specifically the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jeho-vah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corpora-tions, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.
14. If the judicial committee has stated that it is acting only for the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the judicial committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies of reports to anyone outside the P________ Con-gregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.
15. I may appeal any action taken by the judicial committee.
16. Before I will meet with an appeal committee, that committee must notify me in writing of the names of all of the members of the appeal committee and who each one represents: the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or it’s legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylva-nia, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named
17. There shall be no contact between the judicial committee and the appeal com-mittee other than to inform them of the time and place of my meetings with them. If I determine that there is any contact, communication or attempt on the part of any of the members of the original judicial committee or anyone acting on their behalf to, in any way prejudice or sway the appeal committee, I will insist that a new appeal committee be formed.
18. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibili-ties involved in the appeal process.
19. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during the all meetings between me and the appeal committee. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the appeal committee may consult with one or more lawyers, spe-cifically those employed by the Legal Department of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.
20. During the meetings with the appeal committee I and/or my observer will take whatever notes we feel are necessary.
21. I will not recognize any action taken by the appeal committee as valid unless it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.
22. In this written communication the appeal committee must state exactly on whose behalf they are taking the action, specifically the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jeho-vah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corpora-tions, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.
23. If the appeal committee has stated that it is acting only for the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the appeal committee or anyone act-ing in their behalf notifies or reports to anyone outside the P________ Congrega-tion of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.
24. I understand that if I am disfellowshipped by the judicial committee and the disfellowshipping is upheld by the appeal committee that I am, at that point, no longer considered to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I also understand that it is
necessary to make a brief announcement that I have been disfellowshipped. From then on, I will consider any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any of Jehovah’s Witnesses to treat me differ-ently from any other person that is not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to be a seri-ous violation of my civil rights and I may initiate any legal action, civil or criminal that I deem appropriate. This includes any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar ju-dicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any present Jeho-vah’s Witnesses to shun or avoid me, cease or otherwise modify their doing busi-ness with me, or terminate or otherwise abrogate any lease, rental, mortgage, or any other legal agreement that I may presently have with them. I may consider such to be an infringement of free trade and may initiate appropriate legal ac-tion.25. I consider any communication between the members of the judicial committee and myself and the appeal committee and myself to be ecclesiastically privileged. Any attempt to reveal the substance or tone of those communications to any other person or group will be considered by me to be a breach of that privilege and may result in legal action. This includes any announcements beyond the fact of my disfellowshipping, speeches, talks, or any other communication, written or oral, public or private.
I fully realize that you may be unwilling or that the Watchtower corporations will not allow you to comply with the preceding.
I respectfully await your written response
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41
THE ELDERS JUST CALLED US, NEED HELP
by ARoarer inthe elders just called us.
one called and another one got on the phone first to ask if my husband would meet with them.
my husband told them he had nothing to say, and if they are going to make any announcement from the platform that slanders our name in any way we will sue them personally, and if we do meet with them we would only do it if our lawyers come and to tell jr brown and mario marino to come also.
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Utopian Reformist
Thank you ARoarer:
Bill is doing a very fine work indeed, and the fact that you helped has obviously frightened the local "friends". That explains quite a bit. I am surprised that Bill hasn't provided you with a template to use, but we will ge to that eventually.
Do you and your husband definitely want out, and are both of you willing to risk/sacrifice whatever type of "normal" relationship you may have with your son-in-law and his family? Will it harm your daughter and will her life become more difficult as a continuing member of that community?
If all of you can bear the heat, then all you need is a letter. If not, then there is the issue of how to do damage control about the XMAS holiday. That will depend on whether or not anyone has pictures of any decorations outside of your home, testimony from anyone who received a gift, or eyewitnesses who saw XMAS trees, gifts and decorations in your home, etc.
Now let's get a letter for you.
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41
THE ELDERS JUST CALLED US, NEED HELP
by ARoarer inthe elders just called us.
one called and another one got on the phone first to ask if my husband would meet with them.
my husband told them he had nothing to say, and if they are going to make any announcement from the platform that slanders our name in any way we will sue them personally, and if we do meet with them we would only do it if our lawyers come and to tell jr brown and mario marino to come also.
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Utopian Reformist
AROARER:
I am sorry they are making you "nervous" and "jittery". Try to calm down and relax. Unfortunately, now is not the time for "counseling", but I regretfully have to point to some helpful hints before any advice will make sense.
OK. Here goes. You stated:
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The elders just called us. One called and another one got on the phone first to ask if my husband would meet with them. My husband told them he had nothing to say, and if they are going to make any announcement from the platform that slanders our name in any way we will sue them personally, and if we do meet with them we would only do it if our lawyers come and to tell JR BRown and Mario Marino to come also. I got on the phone and told the one elder that our family are good and we have done nothing wrong and we have always been better friends to them than they ever were to us and that we have always been very kind and compassionate with them, so how can they come and attack our family again. They have my adrenalin going right now. My question is can anyone here on the board fax me a copy of a form letter about legally holding them responsible if they make any announcement from the platform? My printer doesn't work. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks
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Your situation does NOT sound like there was a plan or strategy in place, if I am wrong, what was the original plan for exiting? If you did not prepare one, it's not too late. Obviously, from your phone conversations, and your husband's comments, there is a little damage control that needs to be performed.
Of course, if neither of you have any relatives or friends that are 100% loyal witnesses, then nothing has been lost and simply protect your legal rights. If there are people you need inside the organization, you need to regroup, recompose and start an exit strategy.
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Let's start at the very beginning with the reasons the elders are asking for a meeting. Why? What prompted the request? Give us some details and we can help you.
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Next, try to list and remember anyone and everyone you and your husband have been communicating with inside and around the organization in recent months. Try to recall your conversations. Someone may have felt a "conscience" prick and began an inquiry into your lives with a statement, comment, supposition, accusation, observation. That's all it takes to get the "judicial chariot" rolling.
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Answer those questions and we will start helping you and advising the best way we possibly can, provided the information is correct and accurate.
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Part 4: The Last KM School
by Amazing inpart 4: the last km school .
the average jw elder participates in extra exclusive activities over and above the rank & file jw: among them are the judicial committees, private meetings with the circuit and district overseer on various official occasions, possession of the secretive flock book, and kingdom ministry school.. of all these, the least frequently experienced is km school.
it is not all that exciting, because much of what is covered is admonition about what most jws already know that elders are supposed to be doing: examples in field service, regular shepherding calls, meeting preparation and attendance, study with the family, etc.
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Utopian Reformist
Sexy Teen / YoYoMama:
How long is your tongue? It is obviously many times longer than your memory. Note your public stupidity:
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SexyTeen:When Amazing found Franz's book on the library shelf, a book he had been looking for, and a book that was almost always checked out, that may well have been God answering his prayers.
Or it could have been Satan.
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Followed by additional stupidity:SexyTeen:
"The condition my brains were in as a JW, they needed washing."
So you admit that you were an ignorant moron while a JW, thank God you're out then. Now I understand why it was so easy for Ray to get into your brain.
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Now the grande finale of them all (Epilogue of Insanity):SexyTeen: I don't want to convert no one, I'm out and I'm also proud to be an apostate!
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Mother, wife, myself, DA'ing ourselves
by ashitaka inwell, i've finally had it.
i'm da'ing myself, along with a piece of my fam.
the unbaptised ones are refusing to go with my father now, and even my still devout father is leaning towards our opinion on things.. there wasn't even any screaming when i called the jw's the great hypocrisy last nite.. i just can allow myself to be associated with them in any way.
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Utopian Reformist
GO ON BROTHER-MAN! Get your "administrative" groove on and let'em have it! A million congratulations to you and your wonderful, loyal, supportive family.
Despite the years of mistakes and suffering, you guys can still make a great life! Stick together. Help each other get back to school. Travel together, see the world! Make friends, take risks! LIVE!